Comments on: You should read this post http://www.mypunchbowl.com/blog/2008/07/21/you-should-read-this-post/ Party Planning and Online Invitations with Punchbowl Sat, 11 Feb 2012 23:42:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: D. Verde http://www.mypunchbowl.com/blog/2008/07/21/you-should-read-this-post/#comment-3972 D. Verde Wed, 13 Aug 2008 05:02:08 +0000 http://www.mypunchbowl.com/blog/2008/07/21/you-should-read-this-post/#comment-3972 As a business analyst, I rolled my eyes over the "It's hard to explain the nuances of a particular feature implementation to a customer... it's clear they haven't looked at the problem comprehensively" part. We pop our developers on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper for that kind of nonsense and make them sit and watch usability tests from behind the mirrored wall (a closed-circuit TV, actually). Unfortunately, logic is merely a perception. Customers can be complete webtards sometimes... but that's who we're building stuff for. For better or for worse, the "shoulds" often win out. Don't intend to be bustin' your chops. I know you're venting. And, trust me, you don't know just how much I feel your pain. As for the presumptively helpful "you should"... I'll take it over a critical "why didn't you" any day of the week. As a business analyst, I rolled my eyes over the “It’s hard to explain the nuances of a particular feature implementation to a customer… it’s clear they haven’t looked at the problem comprehensively” part. We pop our developers on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper for that kind of nonsense and make them sit and watch usability tests from behind the mirrored wall (a closed-circuit TV, actually). Unfortunately, logic is merely a perception. Customers can be complete webtards sometimes… but that’s who we’re building stuff for. For better or for worse, the “shoulds” often win out.

Don’t intend to be bustin’ your chops. I know you’re venting. And, trust me, you don’t know just how much I feel your pain.

As for the presumptively helpful “you should”… I’ll take it over a critical “why didn’t you” any day of the week.

]]> By: Bill Blakelyn http://www.mypunchbowl.com/blog/2008/07/21/you-should-read-this-post/#comment-2814 Bill Blakelyn Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:18:25 +0000 http://www.mypunchbowl.com/blog/2008/07/21/you-should-read-this-post/#comment-2814 I have to disagree with you Matt, although, I understand the sentiment. The problem is not the word should. It is the poor language logic used around that word. (I think I just invented the phrase 'language logic'.) Should is a conditional word. The use of it demands a conditional statement. "You should blank, if you blank." Your examples of acceptable uses of should are based on commonly accepted, implied, conditional statements. "You should brush your teeth, if you don't want them to decay." Generally, your bad examples don't have clear, (or commonly accepted) implied, conditional statements. "You should check out that site, if you are interested in language logic." - But I am not! A few more notes: 1. The idea that we need to stamp our opinions with opinion language is flawed and unwieldy. "It is my opinion that you should go see Hellboy if you want to see a bad movie that looks good." When I speak it is inherent that it is with my opinion. When I write it is the same. Your english teacher should have marked you down for including "it is my opinion" or "I believe/think" in any essay. 2. You get mad at people who presume to know your priorities. There is no reason for this. It is all great feedback. I have often found that understanding why somebody is wrong is as important as how they are. And it is just as valid in most evaluations. I imagine this even exaggerated in the public software world where understanding the thinking involved in "your site should have..." is important even when your site should not have. Another great blog, BX Blakelyn I have to disagree with you Matt, although, I understand the sentiment. The problem is not the word should. It is the poor language logic used around that word. (I think I just invented the phrase ‘language logic’.) Should is a conditional word. The use of it demands a conditional statement.

“You should blank, if you blank.”

Your examples of acceptable uses of should are based on commonly accepted, implied, conditional statements.

“You should brush your teeth, if you don’t want them to decay.”

Generally, your bad examples don’t have clear, (or commonly accepted) implied, conditional statements.

“You should check out that site, if you are interested in language logic.” - But I am not!

A few more notes:

1. The idea that we need to stamp our opinions with opinion language is flawed and unwieldy.
“It is my opinion that you should go see Hellboy if you want to see a bad movie that looks good.”
When I speak it is inherent that it is with my opinion. When I write it is the same. Your english teacher should have marked you down for including “it is my opinion” or “I believe/think” in any essay.

2. You get mad at people who presume to know your priorities. There is no reason for this. It is all great feedback. I have often found that understanding why somebody is wrong is as important as how they are. And it is just as valid in most evaluations. I imagine this even exaggerated in the public software world where understanding the thinking involved in “your site should have…” is important even when your site should not have.

Another great blog,
BX Blakelyn

]]> By: Dharmesh Shah http://www.mypunchbowl.com/blog/2008/07/21/you-should-read-this-post/#comment-2767 Dharmesh Shah Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:12:13 +0000 http://www.mypunchbowl.com/blog/2008/07/21/you-should-read-this-post/#comment-2767 You're not wrong at all. I struggled with that particular post (because, it was one of those rare cases where I wanted to bring value to something that brought value to me). The "you should do X" is not a particularly compelling argument. If I had a $1 for every "you should do this..." opportunity that comes my way, I could fund my next few startups. :) Thanks for calling me out. Both deserved and welcomed. Regards, Dharmesh You’re not wrong at all.

I struggled with that particular post (because, it was one of those rare cases where I wanted to bring value to something that brought value to me).

The “you should do X” is not a particularly compelling argument. If I had a $1 for every “you should do this…” opportunity that comes my way, I could fund my next few startups. :)

Thanks for calling me out. Both deserved and welcomed.

Regards,
Dharmesh

]]> By: Carolinw http://www.mypunchbowl.com/blog/2008/07/21/you-should-read-this-post/#comment-2763 Carolinw Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:43:29 +0000 http://www.mypunchbowl.com/blog/2008/07/21/you-should-read-this-post/#comment-2763 Your post made me smile. Not because I thought it was funny, but I can totally relate to feeling of "Oh really? I SHOULD, should I?" I owned a small business (indoor play facility for parents and children) and I cannot tell you how often that was the way an idea was phrased to me. In my opinion, much like yours, I felt as though they started off on the wrong foot before they even got their idea to me. If it was presented to me in a different fashion, it would be a different story. I agree - the word SHOULD can be deleted from the world without an argument from me! On a totally different note - I really have enjoyed exploring mypunchbowl. I am a party planner and am just starting a party planning blog (with ideas and solutions to parties for ALL occasions). I have just started this blog and you are the first link I have. I have used other invite websites before, and they were fine....but yours is really way more on my level of planning. Thanks so much! Your post made me smile. Not because I thought it was funny, but I can totally relate to feeling of “Oh really? I SHOULD, should I?” I owned a small business (indoor play facility for parents and children) and I cannot tell you how often that was the way an idea was phrased to me. In my opinion, much like yours, I felt as though they started off on the wrong foot before they even got their idea to me. If it was presented to me in a different fashion, it would be a different story. I agree - the word SHOULD can be deleted from the world without an argument from me!

On a totally different note - I really have enjoyed exploring mypunchbowl. I am a party planner and am just starting a party planning blog (with ideas and solutions to parties for ALL occasions). I have just started this blog and you are the first link I have. I have used other invite websites before, and they were fine….but yours is really way more on my level of planning. Thanks so much!

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